Keith ([info]keith_london) wrote,
@ 2008-05-06 14:28:00
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Current mood: calm
Entry tags:us primaries 08

N Carolina; Indiana (II)
The big issue this time is the price of gas. Hillary backs a 3-month gas tax holiday, which Obama derided as "a gimmick" and "phoney". But isn't Obama sitting down with white working class to a breakfast of sausage and chips even more gimmicky and phoney? As for the gas tax holiday, I noted when McCain proposed it, I had two on my LJ f-list discuss gas issues. One (a Dem ... I think) didn't think it would help in the long term, and the other (an inveterate Republican as far as I can tell) mentioned what was implied to be absurd Obama proposals for tax on gas (e.g a 20 percent tax on the cost of a barrel of oil above $80). I'm not automatically saying the gas tax holiday is "gimmicky". I for one would welcome any sort of holiday, including a gas tax holiday. Just take the money, people! I don't appreciate Obama's position that you should not alleviate suffering, however temporary, amongst bitter white working class people (who only have God and guns to find solace in), amongst other groups of folks, pending a better energy policy of the future. (Obama has backed gas tax holidays in Illinois before - three times!)



North Carolina - "a God-fearing, gun-owning, lock-'em-up-and-throw-away-key state that loves its NASCAR." In North Carolina, it helps if you like barbecue, basketball and go to church. The new residents flowing into this fast-growing state, with a population of 9.1 million, are younger, coming for jobs in high-tech industries, the profiles of people who have been voting for Obama in this extended primary season. The African-American Democratic primary vote could be close to 40 percent, according to estimates from North Carolina Democratic Party officials. A state big in agriculture. North Carolina is the world’s fifth-largest corn importer. Its poultry and hog farming industries are each valued at more than $2bn a year. The state boosted its corn production to record levels last year but still imports about 10 times more than it grows. Other crops grown include cotton, grains & oil seed, peanuts and tobacco. It's also number one in the USA for sweet potatoes, turning out more than 600 million pounds of sweet potatoes annually (mentioned here). 115 delegates are up for grabs.

Indiana, a former steel producing state, is the fifth-largest corn producing state in the US, making it a leading beneficiary of rising crop prices and increased use of corn-based ethanol in fuel. Manufacturing accounts for 20 percent of all Indiana jobs, the highest proportion of any U.S. state. New ventures in pharmaceuticals, biofuels and medical sciences are joining established industries like steel, engines and mobile homes. Residents of Indiana are known as Hoosiers. 72 delegates are on offer.

[Sources: Washington Post - What the Candidates Should Know About N. Carolina; Chicago Sun Times - Hillary rallies as Obama's N.C. lead shrinks; Reuters - Factbox]


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Heck yes, it's a gimmick.
[info]asheris
2008-05-06 08:10 pm UTC (link)
It's 18.5 cents per gallon. I used one of the online calculators to figure out how much it would save our two-car household over the summer - all told: $15.

Yes. Fifteen whole dollars.

The most I've heard anyone say their family would "save" over the summer is about $40, and that only because they had a week-long driving trip planned. (I'm guessing farmers and truckers would save more, but still not enough to make any real difference.)

That is, of course, IF the gas companies don't just wait a week or so then bump their prices a little so the price of gas is right back where it was before the "holiday" started. (Which is exactly what they've done in states that have tried the gas tax holiday idea.)

Besides - that 18.5 cents per gallon? THAT is our (basically ONLY) funding for roads, bridges, and other transportation infrastructure. For which we already don't have enough money!

And of course, cut what little funding that gets, and that'll be tens of thousands more people out of work around the country. (Some states have already said they'd have to lay off 5-6,000 highway workers each until the funding resumed.) How the heck is THAT supposed to help an already crumbling economy?

Yeah, what a great idea. Give many people $10-20 bucks - and in exchange put off desperately needed road maintenance AND increase the unemployment rate. Wow, brilliant idea.

Better idea: How about limiting the amount of profit gas companies can make per gallon of gas sold? Right now, they're racking up PROFITS in the tens of billions of dollars per year, per company. Cut it to half that - they can still get obscenely high profits, and the rest of us don't get screwed (again).

(fwiw, I live in Minnesota. I used to drive over the I35W bridge a couple times a month when I lived in the 'Cities. Until it fucking FELL DOWN thanks to lack of maintenance funding, and a highly politicized highway department that ignored every recommendation they got from assorted engineers about the importance of FIXING the known problems.)

(Reply to this)(Thread)
Re: Heck yes, it's a gimmick.
[info]keith_london
2008-05-06 08:32 pm UTC (link)
OK Maybe it is a gimmick, but if it does go ahead, surely every little bit helps? Already there are tax rebates, US interest rate cuts - measures to try and boost the economy, to stop recession. What's so bad about a gas tax reduction? (We would welcome that here in the UK, I'm sure! Even in recent times, every now and then we get these ridiculous protests over UK fuel tax...)

For the average family, $20 may not be anything to rejoice over. However, surely for businesses where transport costs are significant, it may mean the difference between survival or demise. And businesses employ people. I agree if it's just a gimmick, and, if the real issues are not tackled, then there's not much point.

Also oil companies contribute trillions of dollars in taxes ... which must surely help everyone!

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)
Re: Heck yes, it's a gimmick.
[info]asheris
2008-05-06 08:58 pm UTC (link)
So it's a good idea, even if it would throw tens of thousands out of work?

Another thing - here in the northern part of the country, summer is the best time to get road and bridge work done. A lot of it simply can't be done during our winters. So cutting funding for transportation needs NOW (as this "holiday" would do, potentially means no more roadwork in the northern part of the country until next year. Now, I don't know about where you're at, but we've got far too many roads and bridges that desperately need work done NOW. Heck, most of them needed work done over the past several years, but there hasn't been funding for it.

Putting it off longer is only going to result in more wear on vehicles, more road and bridge closures resulting in more time stuck in traffic, more money and time lost to time spent stuck in traffic (which is going to HURT transportation companies), and more accidents due to bad road surfaces. Pray that there aren't any more major bridge collapses!


As for "every little bit helping" - as I said before, that's if, and only IF, the oil companies don't just raise prices to match what they already know people will pay - meaning more money in their pockets, and NONE in the coffers to pay for needed infrastructure work. And NO "holiday" at all for consumers.


As for taxes paid by oil companies - you should see the tax breaks and subsidies they get.


I noticed you mentioned above that Obama voted for a gas tax holiday in Illinois a few years back- yes, he did. And having seen the results firsthand, that's why he calls it a gimmick now- because he learned that IT DOESN'T WORK. (I know, it sounds weird- politicians actually learning from their mistakes. Sometimes it happens.)

(Gotta shut down, big lightning storm coming in.)

(Reply to this)(Parent)
super quick
[info]asheris
2008-05-06 09:03 pm UTC (link)
That tax rebate that's going out? All money borrowed from foreign sources.

And most people are planning to spend it on - paying old bills. Which will do exactly zip for the economy.


We're getting a nice chunk ourselves, but you know, I think I'd rather have had seven years of a good economy than a last-ditch, blatant attempt to buy some votes for McCain after years of financial mismanagement.

(Reply to this)(Parent)
thanks much
(Anonymous)
2008-05-08 04:57 am UTC (link)
nice work, brother

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